Hawking Forum Post 36580


Subject: Re: Are there any Theists on this board, and if yes what religion?
Date: September 29, 2001 at 01:21:52; Revised 12:32PM EDT, September 22,2009
Poster: Samuel A. (Sam) Cox

Hi:

Reading all the responses was very interesting. I believe the first very important thing we must understand about the God of an SRT/GR/QM universe is that he is not outside the universe- nothing is, by definition- rather, God has resulted from the same general processes we have. Of course he was here first- an eternity ago..."In the beginning- God".

The GR universe is eternal...infinite time is its one infinite dimension and it "started" from a very specific amount of energy and a set of very precise constraints of scale. That statement by itself implies that our universe did originate somewhere else. I speak of such an "umbilical" elsewhere on this site, but will not dissect that idea here.

The God of a GR universe concept, "the old one" as Einstein called Him, is subject to many of the same constraints of existence we mortals are, yet he has been around in the past, is around now in the present and already exists out there in the future. In the sense that God is subject to many of the same constraints we are, we and he are the result of the same processes...we are to that extent, "in His image". However, God is aware of all information and consciousness. He uses the very principles which underlie the universe to control and guide its development...probablility theory, chaos theory, and the geometric system mathematically described by SRT/GR/QM to modify and create...establish increasing order. We detect His presence when we recognize coincidence...significant events happening in improbable, almost impossible ways.

Yet a GR God's hand is forced by the very nature of the universe...just as, on another level, we have to abide by the laws of physics. God must contend with a universe which is good, even awesome but by its very nature imperfect. He cannot destroy evil-chaos-without destroying the innocent-in fact, risking the existence of everything else too! So, in GR God is required to have a "permissive will". His voice in the universe is truly "a still, small voice". Yet this God, because he has all information in the universe at his disposal, is incredibly powerful.

The writer is reminded of the Biblical parable of the wheat and the tares. The servants in the parable tell their master that they planted good seed in the field, but there are weeds mixed in with the good crop. The owner states that "an enemy has done this". Rather than risking pulling up the good crop with the weeds, he tells his servants to wait until the harvest, at which time everything will be harvested at the same time- and the weeds then separated from the good crop. God is not, in a GR universe, the author of evil. He and his entangled information- all consciousness- are the result of (and forced to deal with) the same processes and constraints. If he destroys evil suddenly, he destroys everything. This sounds like a pretty good explanation for the reality that good and evil simultaneously exist in the universe. It also implies a reason why the situation cannot be immediately rectified.

Personally, I think it is statistically impossible that we are the highest level of conscious intelligence in the universe. I also think it is quite arrogant to assume that nothing smarter than us exists, though there is certainly room for a certain arrogance in a GR universe, since we all belong here, and the universe could not exist as it is without each one of us.

The God (and I do use a large "G") of GR is the interlinked sum of the input of all life in the universe working as a servomechanism to structure, organize and push the universe toward order and away from chaos...and observe same in an increasingly profound manner.

A general relativity God is not Pantheistic. A universe where "bottom line" reality is found at each frame of reference and which is observed from only certain sets of frames, pays ultimate homage to individuality. It is absurd to believe that God in a GR universe is any less concerned about his identity and personal prerogatives than we are. We cherish our identity- and the universe cherishes it too...by including us in the eternal, grand scheme of things. Cognating or relating events and conditions are reasons for complexity and individual identity.

This GR God is also a "South Pacific" kind of deity: lusty, omnipresent, loving, understanding, caring and powerful beyond our wildest dreams...though NOT infinitely powerful. He cannot and will not make us follow a prescribed plan, because there is no totally deterministic prescribed plan in a mathematically irrational cosmos. Complete rationality of any kind is incompatible with a two/sphere cosmos.

In spite of this picture of God as the "Ghost of Christmas Present", our parameters of existence are within a certain "envelope". The theological concept of "grace" refers to our wanderings within this envelope, but if we tempt fate, and push the envelope we find out pretty quickly that this same God can be very firm indeed!

Predation doesn't alarm a GR God. "Death" is a normal part of existence in a GR universe, and is cosmologically of a different significance than that which we assign from our frame. Higher life forms which embody information of special value are, however, provided with brains, and presumably the good sense to stay out of shark infested waters and engage in sex with proper caution.

God is the enemy of chaos. While death is an illusory experience, all living things are part of the information picture, and I'm inclined to believe that the willful destruction of living things for no significant reason attracts Gods attention. Certainly, nothing is outside God, just as there is nothing outside a GR universe! This corresponds in some ways, and not in others with the tenets of many religions.

I'm religious. I believe in the incarnation of deity, (how could God be called divine if he did not experience humanity?...the experience of everything is what makes him divine!) and most of all, I believe our salvation can only be found in trusting God and seeking his guidance in our lives. Since God exists in the past present and future, He alone can see well enough to make something worthwhile out of our lives.

Our existence at this frame in the universe is the equivalent of flying IFR in the clouds, for we do not "remember" the future. Beyond the next 1,000,000 universal cycles, perhaps even Gods perspective on the future narrows a bit, but the next 70 years events are quite open to him! He can see where we cannot, and he knows those almost insignificant decisions we can make, which will influence our eternal direction positively.

Since He is so rich, and complete, no works which we do, can by themselves, secure His favor.

I believe our relationship with God must be as adopted sons and daughters, (a GR God values relationship- and respects individuality) with faith and trust in His knowledge and plan being the key elements in our quest to have a meaningful eternal existence.

Notice that the first thing I said about God is that he is lusty. Many religions downplay this aspect of Gods nature which we see evidenced by sexual behavior in higher life forms everywhere in biological creation. However our invariance as reference frames also stresses this aspect of Gods personality. From our frame, sexual activity is a biological necessity...it resulted in our presence on this Earth! In a general relativity universe, viewed cosmolgically, our existence is certain. The possibility for any slight positive change increases as we grow older....experience. This implies the cosmic reason for sexual activity is not so much procreation as pleasure and "connectedness". Our sexuality emphasizes the fact that we are related with all things- and a part of the cosmic whole. This connectedness, each living thing an essental stone in an eternal edifice, also reminds us that God respects and loves all people ...and we are to do the same, if we are Gods children.(God put us all here eternally for a reason relating to the very existence of the universe).

God is smart, really smart- and he can in a GR universe...and DOES actually create. We can see God in the mathematical description of GR....a universe riding the edge between complexity and chaos, in which intelligent consciousness, and the complex servomechanism (note my use of the individual singular) which it is, slowly drives the universe toward order. We exist alongside chaos because that is the only way we could exist as we are...our existence as flawed mortals is a reflection of a mathematically irrational universe. We are permitted because we are a loved and accepted part of the cosmic whole, but some life does influence the universe toward chaos. It would be expected that the universe by some mechanism, gradually (or suddenly) disposes of such living things. The reader may think of Hitler, but the writer also remembers the dinosaurs...who "stood in the way of progress"!

My wife doesn't particularly like the fact that I can be a bit sacrilegious at times, but I have long felt that God is perfectly capable of taking care of himself and the rest of his universe, and doesn't mind an occasional joke at his own expense. My favorite is one from the "Far Side" cartoon series, in which God is portrayed as a kid, cosmic ages ago. He is in a lab, and the air is filled with chicken feathers. His face is blackened by an explosion, and his glassware is destroyed. The title is: "God as a kid first tries to create a chicken". There is a lot of truth to that in a GR universe!

Best wishes, Sam Cox

  Appendix C-2  

 

© 2000 Samuel Cox